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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2015 1:31:34 GMT -5
Hey Jenn and Firpeace, Thanks so much for your posts. You said exactly what I was thinking Jenn and didn't quite know how to phrase it. Ang put up that post 2 days ago and it has been bothering me ever since so I felt I should say something. JFDI does not always work for some people.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2015 1:45:31 GMT -5
Hey Jeyu, While I appreciate your point of view I want to ask you one question? What about the people who suffer severely from depression and have never taken a drop of alcohol? My mother is one of those so I am speaking from experience. I think people passing judgement annihilate people from the forum which is why I brought up this point. I think Addictive Personality is the right thread for this. People can become addicted to almost anything or maybe obsessed is a better word. Whether it be pills, alcohol, smoking, pornography, drugs, the list goes on.
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Post by achilles1957 on Sept 16, 2015 3:36:01 GMT -5
Hey Ang, I think you are way too judgemental on people who take pills. You don't know their situation or whether their family or partner or parents put them on them in the first place. Did they even have a choice? If you want this forum to be an open welcoming place then its not when people make nasty comments about people on medication. Alcohol is a pill like any other so what's the difference? Maybe this forum can help people addicted to pills the same as it helps those addicted to alcohol.
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Post by achilles1957 on Sept 16, 2015 3:40:26 GMT -5
slimkim Avatar Sept 16, 2015 12:16:25 GMT 10 slimkim said: Hey Ang, I think you are way too judgemental on people who take pills. You don't know their situation or whether their family or partner or parents put them on them in the first place. Did they even have a choice? If you want this forum to be an open welcoming place then its not when people make nasty comments about people on medication. Alcohol is a pill like any other so what's the difference? Maybe this forum can help people addicted to pills the same as it helps those addicted to alcohol. Hi Kim, I understand what you're saying. I also understand Ang's comments however I believe they come from a place of naivety with regards to "depression" per se or any other mental/emotional condition. I was going to reply to her post but didn't have the time when I read it. I know you're on certain prescribed medications that are vital to your wellbeing and feel that you deserve support in this regard rather than the concept that you can JFDI. There are chemical/hormonal imbalances and mental disorders for many folks which go beyond the JFDI concept. I believe that mental disorders, as with physical disorders, can reap the benefit of science in all its shapes and forms. Fortunately I've never had the need to take medication of any sort (apart from my thyroid pills) but as with a thyroid imbalance, so can be said with any type of mental imbalance.
Please don't take what Ang says to heart, I don't believe it comes from a place of malevolence but rather from a lack of knowledge and education regarding mental illness. I was sad when my mum died, when I was diagnosed with cancer, when my son moved away, etc etc., however I wasn't "depressed".. I was overwhelmed, perhaps later melancholic but not "depressed". It's a lack of knowledge that leads to these archaic beliefs and I don't believe there's any intention to be nasty but rather a lack of tact and awareness of the reality that those who truly suffer mental illness (in it's many forms) are confronted with daily.
Don't take stuff to heart, it's not about you.
take care for today
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2015 4:09:50 GMT -5
Hey Jenn, I do take things personally one of my many faults. I've been in psych wards courtesy of my ex husband and seen people too high, too low, a victim of their families or partners or just looking for answers. I was locked up in a psych ward the first time by my sister in law and my ex husband was waiting up the street so he could move back in and look after the kids. My dad was also involved. I was asleep in bed when the police came to pick me up so real psycho lol. I was cleared 12 years later as anyone telling the truth can't keep up their story for that long. I'm now in remission and just on a minimum dose. That is why I lost my kids. Nothing to do with alcohol. Anyway, probably why I go nuts at anyone pointing the finger at medication, it may not be their choice as it wasn't in mine. My parents had a lot to do with it, they believed my exhusband and my mother thrived on that. Maybe it is better to talk about it than keep it hidden, not sure. Anyway thanks for the support.
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Post by jeyu0422 on Sept 16, 2015 7:35:52 GMT -5
Kim,
Yes, I think it's better to talk about it, and I'm glad you brought this up. If I offended you, I'm sorry; it was not my intention. I am certainly not being judgemental about antidepressants or other medications that a physician might prescribe for a patient. I think, for some people with certain conditions, recovery is impossible without them. I have, as I told to Mark, been on antidepressants myself in the past. Also speaking from my point of view, but expecting agreement from Ang and Brett, the JFDI isn't meant to be judgemental. For me, it means that if all of the tools that are supporting my recovery fail me, if out of nowhere, I am hit by cravings that seem impossible to resist, if I have to go back to hour by hour abstinence, I will JFDI. I will push through this and get to the other side without drinking. Fortunately, this hasn't happened to me in a long time, but my commitment to not drinking is complete. It means I will try to "do the next right thing", even if it seems impossible to do at the time. It is an affirmation that, even in the roughest times, if I persevere and push forward, I will come out on the other side a recovering alcoholic, not a relapsed alcoholic. It is kind of an unspoken bond that Brett, Ang, and I have had over the last year and a half that we wouldn't drink, no matter what. Recovery from alcohol addiction is impossible while drinking. For me, this is just another tool of recovery, but one of last resort. If nothing else is working, JFDI.....push through this time and just don't drink. Things will be better tomorrow. Again, my apologies if you or anyone else has been offended by this. It was never intended to alienate you or anyone else, nor was it meant to be judgemental or offensive in any way.
Mark/Jeyu
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Post by gwampa69 on Sept 16, 2015 8:09:29 GMT -5
For what its worth, my two cents. Sometimes anti-depressants and other medications are necessary. Sometimes they are over prescribed for various reasons. But I definitely believe that medications are beneficial for people with "clinical depression" when chemical imbalance is suspected. People suffering from "situational depression" can also benefit from medications as well. Especially when therapy is included, medications can pull people back from the brink of something potentially terrible while the root cause of the depression is sought out.
To me, JFDI means exactly what it stands for. That includes doing whatever it takes to make sobriety a lasting reality. Whatever it takes.
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Post by Dana on Sept 16, 2015 8:46:15 GMT -5
Good morning all! I had to go back and find the post that prompted all this discussion. I thought Ang was talking about herself in that post, that pills don't appeal to *her* - I didn't read it that she talking for anyone else. I find it so interesting that there can be as many versions of a story as there are people to hear it, or read it. I'm not saying anyone is right, or anyone is wrong. It's just interesting. Especially in this online format - where we don't get to see facial expressions, or body language when people talk... and we don't get to hear the voice inflections, or the emphasis in a sentence. When we are the reader, we fill in those missing parts with our own judgment. I try not to take things too personally on here. There's a lot we don't know about each other's backgrounds and such.
Anyway, I don't have much to add to the medication discussion that hasn't already been said. I do think some people need it, and that's between them and their doctor. I'm not one to judge. I've seen what it can look like when people are "off their meds" and it's not pretty. I would much rather them be on their medication. Not self-prescribing medication, but really communicating with their doctors about what's really going on. I've seen how it can be a trial and error a lot of times too, and I've seen the frustration in people I care about trying to get it right.. where one med doesn't quite work and so they have to go back and make some adjustments and try to fine tune it. There are chemical imbalances, that I don't pretend to understand. But they are very real.
I guess I do have a little bit to say about the medication, but I'll stop there.
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Post by jeyu0422 on Sept 16, 2015 10:37:41 GMT -5
Hey Brett, Short and to the point. I agree completely. JFDI means whatever it takes.
Mark/Jeyu
JFDI or Whatever it Takes
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2015 18:57:11 GMT -5
Hey Jeyu, Dana and Brett, Thanks for the apology Jeyu it means a lot. I was a bit offended. I'm glad you explained JFDI or what it means to you. I'll use that saying to apply to my sobriety and keep on pushing forward. On a more positive note I am now catching up on tasks around the house and attacking the garden. It now looks half decent, no plants yet but not overgrown with long grass, trees have been pruned or cut down etc. I won't make any more comments about medication except that I had a friend who went off hers and started drinking 5 litres of wine a day, smoking dope and taking piles of benzos to get some sleep at night. I don't know what happened to her as we stopped being friends when I wouldn't drink with her anymore. Anyway, I think she would have been better off on a minimal dose of whatever medication she was previously on. I'm glad to have provoked some discussion eventhough I kept wanting to get out of bed to jump on my computer to see if there were anymore posts lol. Its a brand new day in Aussie land and hooray its even raining today which we really need.
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Post by blueskye on Sept 17, 2015 7:07:40 GMT -5
To address the issue of medication. There is a huge difference between the normal common and garden blues, sadness, feeling down and unmotivated AND depression. Depression is life threatening if left untreated. Treatment comes in many forms t'is true. Medication is one tool that is proven to be highly effective. Medication saves lives. This past weekend I participated in Out of the Darkness walk to raise awareness for suicide prevention. It was heart breaking to walk along the Wall of Remembrance and see the photos and stories of those who had taken their own lives because they felt it was the only way. Living without hope kills people. Depression is a disease that if left untreated, can be life-threatening. The person can get to the point of such mental impairment that they are not thinking rationally and will not ask for help. Hopefully there is time to intervene before that. Sometimes a person recovers without treatment. But that is a hindsight assessment.
Please, speak carefully, after researching the topic of the use of medication to treat illness and disease.
On another note, classifying alcoholism as a disease doesn't cancel out the issue of responsibility. This is an idea that chaps my arse, no end. Alcoholism is a disease. The alcoholic is responsible for their part in it. They are responsible for their behaviour. They are responsible for their treatment. It's STILL a disease. It's not either/or.
I would posit that the majority of diseases develop because of our lifestyle. How we live, what we eat, drink, breathe, how we sleep, cope with stress - all of these things play a huge role in the development of most diseases. As I understand it, disease is an inflammatory response in the body. We are responsible for creating that response, whether we are aware of it or not.
Responsibility doesn't mean blame. It means RESPONSE ABLE. I am able to respond. Respond to the conditions of living. How I respond factors hugely into my quality of life, relationships, etc..
Okay, getting off the soap box now. This isn't well written, so please read the white bits.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2015 17:52:15 GMT -5
Hey Blue, That was a really good post. You have a great understanding of the issues surrounding depression. I've been suicidal many times but not for a couple of years now. I've heard many stories of people who tried to kill themselves and didn't succeed and just ended up with massive injuries. One girl ended up in a wheelchair for the rest of her life. Its great that you are taking part in the walk for Suicide Prevention. I've learnt to ask for help and had my children to keep me going. I try to stay positive and upbeat which helps. I like you on your soap box by the way.
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Post by blueskye on Sept 18, 2015 16:04:22 GMT -5
Sorry to hear that you've been to that level of despair, Kim.
It bothers me when people make assessments and judgements about mental illness without knowledge. I've had friends say ' I could never kill myself, that's so selfish' - and I just think 'wow, you don't know much about depression then'. Once a person is contemplating suicide, they're no longer thinking rationally (as you know). They have gone beyond the ability to think of others or even themselves. Selfishness doesn't factor into it. It's about pure despair and lack of hope. It's mental illness.
My hope for anyone with severe depression, is that they learn to identify the warning signs, so that they reach out for help before going beyond the stage of being capable of doing so. Sometimes it's not apparent to friends and family. We as humans have learnt to adapt and put on a front for the outside world. Just like a wild animal hides its pain because it doesn't want to appear vulnerable, we put on social masks to navigate our way in the world.
I've been to AA meetings where someone has criticized the use of medication. I ask them where they got their medical degree. Cross talk is frowned upon in AA meetings, but it happens all the time.
Take care, Kim. If ever there is a time when you are feeling like you're going down the rabbit hole of depressive thinking, please reach out for help.
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Post by quitat54 on Sept 20, 2015 22:44:42 GMT -5
Wow
Did you guys ever get off topic. Taking medication has nothing to do with addictive personality. Medication is sometimes necessary to restore chemical imbalance, whatever the cause of that imbalance is, whether genetic or environmental. My ex-wife is schizophrenic and one of the reasons we are not together anymore is because she refused to continue taking medication and I had to protect my children. My son suffers from depression, anxiety and OCD, and he needs medication to control his OCD. My daughter went through depressive episode at the beginning of this year to the point of being suicidal. She tried anti-depressant but it did not work for her. Now she is doing better and got so on her own, without the help of pills. While we are all entitled to our own opinions to say that medication is not needed is naïve. To some it is necessary to function and sometimes to continue living. Again, in my opinion it has nothing to do with Addictive personality. I believe that addictive personality predisposes us to addiction but does not make us addicted. Often there are multiple factors at play, need to escape from stressful/sad/painful situations being one of the main. I could go on and on here, but unfortunately got to go.
You guys are the greatest.
J
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Post by blueskye on Sept 27, 2015 9:44:00 GMT -5
Yes we are! You're not so bad yourself. I like your ears.
Medication is a life saver for many people. I've benefited from medication over the years. I wouldn't hesitate to take medication again, if I felt it necessary.
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