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Post by jeyu0422 on Jul 6, 2016 20:55:56 GMT -5
Mark, someone from the forum, maybe you, told me early on that they had never spoken to a recovering alcoholic with significant "sober time" who regretted the pain and discomfort that they went through to get to where they are. Many had regrets for not doing it sooner, but no one regretted becoming sober. I certainly have no regrets myself for the decision I made to become sober, and have yet to meet that person that does.
Mark, if you don't mind the question, what clicked in you personally that made your last drink the LAST drink? If it's too personal or you don't want to discuss it, my apologies for asking and feel free to ignore the question. For me, I just had this overwhelming feeling that it was now or never. But that feeling didn't last. I had one last glass of wine to "commemorate" the event (I have always liked very clear beginnings and endings), then quit. Within 30 minutes, my resolve was already melting and I was trying to convince myself that I needed just ONE MORE glass to properly commemorate such a momentous event. That was my state of mind when I first posted on the old forum; Day0. The first four or five days of withdrawal symptoms confirmed my suspicions that I could never put myself through that again, and I knew that there was only one way to avoid it. I knew nothing about recovery when I started this journey, but as abstinent time progressed, I learned more and realized that I wanted much more than mere abstinence; I wanted sobriety. You guys showed me the path(s) and I am eternally grateful.
Mark/Jeyu
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Post by Mark_LA on Jul 6, 2016 22:55:33 GMT -5
M/J, if I have trouble answering your question, it’s not because of any aversion or avoidance on my part; it’s because my final quit date experience is an example of the kind of thing I was referring to in another post where I refer to my recovery as “eccentric.” The experience you describe having on your Day One is one I’d had many times by the time I finally quit for good. The difference was, I always went back to drinking. I had 4-1/2 months sober in the summer and early fall of 2012 — the first time I’d ever gotten past 50 days — but I still went back to drinking. I managed to get another month in December 2012, but went back to drinking. What happened on my final Day One, 3/16/13, doesn’t make for a very gripping ES & H story because nothing really happened. It was a day much like those hundreds of other Day Ones I had experienced previously. There was no searingly remorseful aftermath of drunken behavior, no DUI, no trip to the ER, no “Aha!” moment, no falling on my knees in a sudden blinding shaft of light and tearfully shouting “Free at last!” It was more like the motivation and resolve to stay sober had been gradually accreting on one side of the scales while the effectiveness of getting drunk had been gradually eroding on the other side, and on my final day as an active alcoholic, the scales finally tipped. On a conscious level, I wasn’t even terribly aware of this tip of the scales occurring, but I did feel something shift deep in my psyche. I finished the last can of a 12-pack of beer, and as best I can recall, my big moment consisted of thinking something to the effect of, “Well, f*ck this.” The next day, I didn’t drink. I went to work. I didn’t even experience much in the way of acute withdrawals, because by this point my brain and nervous system were so ravaged by alcohol that I lived in a constant misery of PAWS which was only slightly affected by whether I drank on a particular day or not. And then the next day, I didn’t drink. And the next day. And the next one after that. After a while, I gradually started participating in this forum again. I began actively applying the recovery principles I’d learned that had mostly been mere intellectual abstractions before. For at least the first year, I felt pretty awful most of the time. I complained about it frequently on the old forum — I was the reigning PAWS king. But I stayed sober. And then, things gradually started getting better. Today, for the most part, I feel the best I have in many years. So, I wish I had something more inspiring or compelling to say, but in the end, all our stories boil down to the same thing: “I used to be a drunk. Then I stopped drinking, and learned how to live life sober thanks to the help of (insert recovery toolbox contents here). Now, life is better.” That’s my story, and I’m stickin’ to it
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Post by slimkim on Jul 7, 2016 5:32:15 GMT -5
Hey Mark, Your post stayed in my head all day; basically concentrating on the positives that sobriety brings. Its been a difficult day of aches and pains and much fear but no real cravings for alcohol.
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Post by angelina1512 on Jul 7, 2016 19:46:40 GMT -5
Hey Mark LA, isnt it it great that something that you couldn't do you now can. Who said you can't teach an old dog new tricks.lol its so true though, when your done drinking your done drinking. i must admit you sound so much more stronger and positive in your posting. I use to think you second guessed yourself when I first started on the forum, but now, you are more clear and positive. Excellent progress Mark. A big difference, a man who knows who he is and where he is going now. Amazing what no alcohol to do to us:-) are you you still taking gorgeous pictures? Start a thread and show some of them again please. I love seeing them. It's nice to see what people do and how that makes them happy. Obviously you love taking photos so you should share them. tutu
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Post by gwampa69 on Jul 17, 2016 14:43:26 GMT -5
I guess I better start practicing my forgiveness skills. I've thought about this moment often over the last 32 years or so. I always wondered how I would feel. Would I feel anything at all? If I was still drinking I think it's a safe bet that I wouldn't feel many of the feelings I have felt in the last two years. The good ones and the not so good. I suppose that's really the point of sobriety isn't it? Feel emotions instead of numbing them away. Deal with adversity instead of running from it. Be in the moment, good or bad, right or wrong. Feel.
I just learned that my father has terminal cancer. He's 71. My first reaction was nothing. That's a learned response that has served to protect me from the feelings that come with abandonment. The feelings I had about the guy that ditched myself and my brothers and sister when I was 15 years old. Never got much of an explanation about it. My mom was left with us and for the most part his abandonment was mostly about how it affected her. I have problems with my mom about this as she's been this way ever since. But this isn't about her right now. He's dying now, and I don't know how long he has.
My sister has been in touch with him periodically over the last couple years. She says it has helped her come to terms with her feelings about what he did. Somehow she has come to accept him and his failings. He's not a good man. That much is obvious. I see many of my own shortcomings as something he did to me. True I can't blame him for everything, but I have always felt somewhat unprepared for life. This I definitely lay at his feet. It would be difficult to convince me otherwise.
So I am left with a situation right now that I view with trepidation. I know the standard wisdom on this subject is that forgiveness is sometimes more about what it would do for me than what it would do for him. Is that true? I don't know. What I do know is that after he is dead and gone, the last thing I need is something else to regret. Maybe I just answered my own question. If this is my decision, it definitely doesn't feel like putting on a comfortable old pair of slippers. Maybe it isn't supposed to feel like that. I just don't know what to feel. Maybe I should pity him. That doesn't feel quite right either.
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Post by Mark_LA on Jul 17, 2016 22:44:31 GMT -5
Hi Brett -- If I read your post correctly, you haven't had any contact with your father since you were 15? If so, I would think it entirely normal not to feel very much at the news of his impending demise other than a vague resurfacing of emotions associated with his leaving the family when he did. After all, you really don't know him as a person any more, so there's really not much to grieve.
In any case, your feelings (or lack thereof) are what they are. There are no "shoulds." At least in sobriety you know that whatever feelings you experience are authentic and not warped by alcohol.
I'm certainly no expert on this stuff, but I would try to act on the premise of doing the next right thing and staying out of the results. I don't know your individual situation, but with the benefit of a clear head and some progress in recovery, perhaps you can search your heart for the true answer to whether seeing him once more before he dies will bring either one of you any sense of closure or reconciliation, even if your meeting doesn't work out to be a Hallmark moment.
Condolences on your bad news, but I have every confidence you'll make the choices that are right for you.
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Post by jeyu0422 on Jul 17, 2016 22:48:35 GMT -5
"I know the standard wisdom on this subject is that forgiveness is sometimes more about what it would do for me than what it would do for him. Is that true? I don't know. What I do know is that after he is dead and gone, the last thing I need is something else to regret. Maybe I just answered my own question. If this is my decision, it definitely doesn't feel like putting on a comfortable old pair of slippers. Maybe it isn't supposed to feel like that. I just don't know what to feel. Maybe I should pity him. That doesn't feel quite right either."
Hey Brett,
Yep, you just answered your own question, but I would stress the critical nature of both the question and the answer. Forgiveness of someone who you have held resentments toward for years is not about the forgiven; it is about the forgiver. If you don't try to make some contact with your father before he dies, you have allowed him to continue to rob from you for the rest of your life. Forgiveness is the ultimate feel good drug. You may find that there is absolutely no love in your heart for him. That is not needed for forgiveness. You may find that he has no excuses, that he is just a rotten individual. Also not needed for forgiveness. But you may also find, even if the above two conditions are true, that there were reasons, valid or not, for his abandonment of you. I personally don't think it is possible to truly forgive yourself and release all resentment until you have forgiven those who have done you harm. This is really not about him, it is about you. Mark/Jeyu
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Post by angelina1512 on Jul 17, 2016 23:21:43 GMT -5
Hey Sparrow,
dont have regrets, once they are gone everything you wanted to ask or know will be buried as well. It's a tough thing to be abandoned, but have you ever asked him why? I would want to know why if it was me.
This is is about you and how this will affect your life. Being a parent I'm sure you would want to know. Don't let it get too late before you find all the answers that you need to be answered. It might not be what you want to hear but if it was me not knowing would be worse than actually knowing.
life can really suck sometimes. I hope you find peace with all that is going on.
love ya and what a remarkable person you turned out to be even without him being around :-))
ang
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Post by slimkim on Jul 18, 2016 22:05:58 GMT -5
Hey Brett, If it was me I would definitely go visit him. You may be surprised what comes out of it. He may ask forgiveness from you or at least provide some explanation. On the other hand, you may just see a dying old man. Its your call, do with what your heart says. If you can't handle going to see him, then don't. If you feel like you would like to, then do. My dad partially apologised for his alcoholism when I was growing up so you may be pleasantly surprised. You won't know until you try. I must admit though that when my grandfather died, my dad was actually glad he was out of the picture after the abuse my dad received. So it is a hard call.
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Post by Sam on Jul 19, 2016 10:03:56 GMT -5
Go visit him Brett, it might sound weird now but as you get older perhaps someday you will look back and wished you had visited him after he is long gone. There is no harm if you go visit him but a good outcome maybe, these are good odds I'll take any day.
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Post by gwampa69 on Jul 19, 2016 20:51:51 GMT -5
Thank you everyone for your words and thoughts. I'm not sure what I'm going to do about this yet. You've all given me some things to consider.
I'm heading in for a knee replacement tomorrow am. It's long overdue so I'm pretty excited about it. I'll have some time to think about all of this over the next few days for sure.
Take care everybody.
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Post by quitat54 on Jul 22, 2016 0:29:19 GMT -5
Hi Brett
My father abandoned us, my younger brother, my mother and I when I was 6. He tried to reconnect with me when I was 24, he sent me a letter. I ignored it and ignored him. He died shortly after and I never really had a chance to speak with him. Do I live in regret? No. I don't think about it. He was an alcoholic, physically abused my mother, got remarried, divorced... I guess at the end he tried to make peace with the people he hurt. I did not help him in this. I would do it differently now. Does not mean that I would have become close friend but... At the end compassion and forgiveness are very cleansing. People often think that forgiveness is to forget and go on like nothing had happened before. I don't think that is the case. To me forgiveness is acceptance of human frailties. It means to say, I no longer hold the grudge resentment. It is letting go. I think it was Gandhi who said that hatred is the acid which burns the most the vessel that is kept in... or something along those line. Resentment is derivative of hatred. Anyway I find that letting go gives me tremendous freedom. Letting go of desire, anger... I am not always successful and continue working on it but as I age I am making progress and feel more at peace with myself. Non drinking certainly helps...
Anyway best of luck in whichever you decide Brett.
J
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Post by gwampa69 on Dec 24, 2016 17:48:15 GMT -5
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to everyone. I hope the end of this year and the start of the next finds you happy healthy and sober.
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Post by quitat54 on Dec 29, 2016 0:19:00 GMT -5
Hi Brett
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to you and everyone else who still occasionally pops in. My second Christmas sober. New experience, a good one. Life without alcohol is good. I really don't miss it. I have all the fun and I handle my sadness without a need to drink. Always vigilant though... J
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Post by gwampa69 on May 11, 2017 19:09:13 GMT -5
Time to blow the dust off this sucker for a minute. There has been a lot going on in the last 6 months and I feel sorta lonely for this place. I haven't been focusing on the sobriety issue too much. No time to grind on about the topic as work has been ridiculous for over a year now. In the 21 years of my career, I've never worked this hard or carried such a big load. My stress level is through the roof and my only outlet has been an occasional trip up north for some fishing and a bit of hunting. Gardening season is here so my little garden is underway. Life is good but a bit too busy for my liking.
My girlfriend is coming from Thailand in July for a month. I'll go there again in September. I'm happy to say we are talking about marriage after almost 3 years and flying back and forth across the planet. She has been a wonderful ray of light in my life. I met her family last October and had a chance to spend some time with her grandfather before he passed away. It was an honor to meet him.
My kids are doing great in college and are adjusting well to adult life. They have been the biggest most motivating force in my pursuit of long term sobriety. I am better for them and I am better because of them. It's a win win for everyone I guess. Anyways that's my update for now. Hope you are reading this with health and happiness in your life.
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