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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2015 17:23:27 GMT -5
Wow PT. I'm so glad that you made it to a meeting and got through it. A big High Five to you. I was about to post you and ask if you'd made it to the meeting or chickened out, lol. I still hate the walking in part to meetings the most especially if I know people there and I keep imagining that their saying 'why didn't she get this years ago?'. Probably just all in my head though. After that I am usually okay. I went to my first AA about 10 years ago. That was lovely that the person said to you that you were in the right place and to go on inside. You've inspired me to go back to meetings as soon as my car is fixed. Great quotes as well, really good stuff PT, I can see a change in you already since you've come to the forum.
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Post by Pam on Oct 3, 2015 19:15:59 GMT -5
Wow PT. I'm so glad that you made it to a meeting and got through it. A big High Five to you. I was about to post you and ask if you'd made it to the meeting or chickened out, lol. I still hate the walking in part to meetings the most especially if I know people there and I keep imagining that their saying 'why didn't she get this years ago?'. Probably just all in my head though. After that I am usually okay. I went to my first AA about 10 years ago. That was lovely that the person said to you that you were in the right place and to go on inside. You've inspired me to go back to meetings as soon as my car is fixed. Great quotes as well, really good stuff PT, I can see a change in you already since you've come to the forum. Hey Kim. Thank you girl! I am feeling much more confident about my ability to abstain from drinking. . .
How are you? The weather here in the Midwest has been awesome recently. Crisp and cool . . . loving it. Puppy and I were out and about . . . She/We chased leaves and squirrels. . . . Then, she napped. So, I went out and about to take of a few errands and then, returned home to cook and clean.
I've been reading the forum on and off today. I thought I wanted to go to another meeting this evening, however, I think I'll wait until tomorrow or next Friday. It's not about the number of meetings, right? It's about committing to your decision. . . .
Take care.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2015 20:01:19 GMT -5
Hey PT, I'm feeling pretty good today. Atm giving up the smokes is what I am working on today as the cravings for alcohol seem to have subsided. I've been cleaning out cupboards and drawers as once the blinkers were off I seemed to be noticing the mess suddenly.
Its springtime here in Aussie so flowers are blooming and birds are busy with their young. I love going out walking, it seems to relax me. I went out today and this lady was walking 3 dogs and one kept barking at me. I thought he was cute anyway. What sort of dog do you have? I love dogs.
For me personally, its not about the number of meetings. In AA they say 90 meetings in 90 days but I always found I needed a day or two to digest and think about what was said. I agree with you that its the decision not to drink on a daily basis that is crucial. There's no need to rush Step 4 or maybe I am just procrastinating on it. Just do whatever it takes to stay sober for the day. You've motivated me to keep persisting with Step 4 plus that quote is awesome. We must have cross posted because I didn't see that last one. Something to think on.
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Post by Pam on Oct 4, 2015 8:16:24 GMT -5
Another day . . . . Kim, I'm glad to hear that you're feeling okay. I can only imagine the craving, as I never started smoking. But . . . giving up most things we want is difficult. lol Cheer yourself on and keep it up!
This weekend, I thought about the quote and instead of focusing on the past, I decided to start my gratitude list. Well, worth the time. . . I'm thinking about editing it and framing it . . . just as a reminder.
I have a Shiba Inu. She's a year and a few months. My son mentioned a few weeks before his birthday that he'd always wanted a dog. My intention that day, just to look at the pups available. However, after watching her sleep, then, stretch and play with her toy, . . . I thought . . . why not? So, I brought her home. It's been an adventure. I've never owned a pet. Have an awesome day!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 16:48:15 GMT -5
Hey PT, I had a look at a picture of a Shiba Inu and they look really adorable. I've owned 3 dogs but don't own one now. A gratitude list is a great idea and another great quote. Hope you are having a great day as well.
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Post by Pam on Oct 4, 2015 19:41:29 GMT -5
Reflecting: God is my higher power . . .
Galatians 5:21-22 "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering (patience), kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control . . ."
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Post by Pam on Oct 4, 2015 21:14:24 GMT -5
Reread the forum post regarding finding a sponsor: This topic was started by Dana. There were lots of responses . . . . I found and read a link to the AA pamphlet that addresses sponsorship. Would someone have a moment to answer these questions?
Thank you!
1) In the age of technology, is it alright to have an online sponsor? 2) Am I simply looking for someone who is easy to talk to and has completed the 12 Steps? 3) Am I obligated to share my story of why I began to drink, etc.? 4) Does this person create a suggested time frame for me to work through the 12 Steps or is this something I can continue to do by myself?
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Post by Mark_LA on Oct 4, 2015 23:57:48 GMT -5
1) Face to face is better, if you possibly can. Online, there’s too much room for editing and backpedaling, and too few consequences for not being accountable. You can end up saying the words you want your sponsor to hear rather than the words you can’t bring yourself to say.
2) “Easy to talk to?” Maybe, but it's not essential. “Completed the 12 Steps?” Absolutely, but that’s just the beginning. Ideally, you want to find someone who has had a real “spiritual experience” as a result of the 12 Steps and is able to help guide you through the Steps with the goal of your achieving a “spiritual experience” as well. It isn’t just about “relating to” someone on a personal level — some of the Steps are about shining a light on the dark places in your soul so that they may be examined and dealt with, and this isn’t always pleasant.
3) It doesn’t matter why you began to drink. It matters only that you accept wholly and unreservedly that you have now ceased to drink, and that you’re willing to do what it takes to reach a place where the obsession with alcohol is removed. The sponsor’s role is to show you how to do this using the program of AA’s 12 Steps. Yes, this involves taking a hard look at yourself, but the answer to “why I began to drink” is fundamentally the same for every alcoholic and has little to do with recovery, at least in AA terms.
4) The time frame will depend on the sponsor. I’ve heard some people say that if you don’t get the Steps done in a week, you’re dawdling; I’ve heard of others whose devotion to the concept of “take your time” is so extreme that they advocate doing one step per year. Seems like somewhere in the middle ought to be reasonable. In any case, remember that the point of doing the Steps is not in the Steps themselves. As with the steps in the instructions for assembling a piece of IKEA furniture, the point is the object being assembled — in this case, a fully functional and integrated human being who leads a life “happy, joyous, and free” without alcohol.
A caveat: before you listen to anything I say, be advised my AA experience is mainly theoretical rather than personal. I’m sure Ron and Dana and others with much more authentic experience will be along to point out my errors and provide much better answers than mine, but I felt motivated to write them out because doing so helped my sobriety.
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Post by ron on Oct 5, 2015 6:34:50 GMT -5
1) In the age of technology, is it alright to have an online sponsor? 2) Am I simply looking for someone who is easy to talk to and has completed the 12 Steps? 3) Am I obligated to share my story of why I began to drink, etc.? 4) Does this person create a suggested time frame for me to work through the 12 Steps or is this something I can continue to do by myself? 1) It is absolutely, positively alright to have an online sponsor. The only thing to remember is you'll need to do the 5 th step with someone face to face. This isn't that big a deal. While some folks will tell you you have to do the 5 th step with your sponsor, it's not required. This is specifically addressed in the Big Book. 2) Those are as reasonable as most other reasons. You might want to get a feeling for how secure they are in their sobriety, as well as how their sobriety aligns with your expectations/needs. Do they say they have to make x number of meetings to stay sober? Not so good, unless you have the time and inclination to make AA meetings part of your life from here on out. Are they controlling; do they insist on monitoring and dictating everything you do? These folks should be avoided---they've missed something in their own step work. A sponsor is only there to guide you through the Steps, nothing more. 3) Technically, you're not obligated to share anything with anyone, until the 5 th step. And then, you can pick anyone, or several different someone's to share you're inventory with. Myself, I never had a sponsor in the AA sense of the word, (I used everyone on the old about.com forum to learn how to do the steps), so I went to a personal friend for some of it, an AA member for other parts of it, and a Catholic priest for the stuff I wanted to keep absolutely private. I'm not Catholic, or even religious, but there are a lot of priests out there who are knowledgeable about the Steps, willing to hear your 5 th, and bound to confidentiality. Ummm, why would you not want to tell your story? Just wonderin', you don't have to answer. 4) You should be allowed to work the steps at your own pace. If that turns out to be too fast or too slow for your sponsor, consider their objections, and if you can't come to an accord, find a new sponsor. In the early days of AA, a prospect was taken through the first three steps in less than a day. Many were hospitalized at the time they were first contacted by AA members. The members would tell the prospect their stories and ask the prospect to think it over. Then they'd go back the next day and if the prospect said he wanted what they had, the first three steps would be knocked out during that hospital visiting period. After that, it was usually less than a week to take them through the rest of the steps, and whammo!, the prospect was out on the street carrying the message to other alcoholics, as per Step 12. I think one important fact is missed by those who insist on finishing each step, in numerical order, before moving on to the next step. That is, the steps do not operate as separate, discrete actions, but work together to reinforce and compliment each other. In other words, the quicker you can get all twelve of them working in your life, the better.
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Post by ron on Oct 5, 2015 6:56:35 GMT -5
Hey, pt. Me again. Forgot to add:
Mark said, "A caveat: before you listen to anything I say, be advised my AA experience is mainly theoretical rather than personal. I’m sure Ron and Dana and others with much more authentic experience will be along to point out my errors and provide much better answers than mine, but I felt motivated to write them out because doing so helped my sobriety."
I would say to any and all, here and in the rooms or wherever, to listen to everyone you can who might have input for you. We are all just giving our opinions, and none is more valid than another. I have little doubt that everyone who responds to your questions here will have a different answer. Get all the opinions you can, then use your own best judgement. Follow your heart.
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Post by Pam on Oct 5, 2015 17:32:53 GMT -5
Note to Self: Step 4 (source Ron's post - explaining the 12 Steps from the AA book) The first has the people, institutions, and principles we are angry with or resentful about. . . The second sets down exactly why we’re angry. . . The third specifies how we are affected. . . The fourth lists our faults
The fifth list lists our fears The sixth list - relationships
". . . the inventory is just a tool to move you toward recovery." (Ron's post)
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Post by Pam on Oct 5, 2015 17:55:12 GMT -5
1) Face to face is better, if you possibly can. Online, there’s too much room for editing and backpedaling, and too few consequences for not being accountable. You can end up saying the words you want your sponsor to hear rather than the words you can’t bring yourself to say. 2) “Easy to talk to?” Maybe, but it's not essential. “Completed the 12 Steps?” Absolutely, but that’s just the beginning. Ideally, you want to find someone who has had a real “spiritual experience” as a result of the 12 Steps and is able to help guide you through the Steps with the goal of your achieving a “spiritual experience” as well. It isn’t just about “relating to” someone on a personal level — some of the Steps are about shining a light on the dark places in your soul so that they may be examined and dealt with, and this isn’t always pleasant. 3) It doesn’t matter why you began to drink. It matters only that you accept wholly and unreservedly that you have now ceased to drink, and that you’re willing to do what it takes to reach a place where the obsession with alcohol is removed. The sponsor’s role is to show you how to do this using the program of AA’s 12 Steps. Yes, this involves taking a hard look at yourself, but the answer to “why I began to drink” is fundamentally the same for every alcoholic and has little to do with recovery, at least in AA terms. 4) The time frame will depend on the sponsor. I’ve heard some people say that if you don’t get the Steps done in a week, you’re dawdling; I’ve heard of others whose devotion to the concept of “take your time” is so extreme that they advocate doing one step per year. Seems like somewhere in the middle ought to be reasonable. In any case, remember that the point of doing the Steps is not in the Steps themselves. As with the steps in the instructions for assembling a piece of IKEA furniture, the point is the object being assembled — in this case, a fully functional and integrated human being who leads a life “happy, joyous, and free” without alcohol. A caveat: before you listen to anything I say, be advised my AA experience is mainly theoretical rather than personal. I’m sure Ron and Dana and others with much more authentic experience will be along to point out my errors and provide much better answers than mine, but I felt motivated to write them out because doing so helped my sobriety. Thank you for responding. I've got lots of questions:
What do you mean by a "spiritual experience"? Do you refer to an acceptance of the existence of a Higher Power? Do you also mean the person accepts the capacity of the Higher Power to increase their level of self-control?
I am also reading old posts and carefully considering them in reference to the purpose of a sponsor, etc.
Finally, I would like your opinion, if I believe "the dark places of my soul" are only relevant to me and my Higher Power (God) then, should I reconsider the role of AA and the 12 Steps in my life?
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Post by Pam on Oct 5, 2015 18:04:51 GMT -5
1) In the age of technology, is it alright to have an online sponsor? 2) Am I simply looking for someone who is easy to talk to and has completed the 12 Steps? 3) Am I obligated to share my story of why I began to drink, etc.? 4) Does this person create a suggested time frame for me to work through the 12 Steps or is this something I can continue to do by myself? 1) It is absolutely, positively alright to have an online sponsor. The only thing to remember is you'll need to do the 5 th step with someone face to face. This isn't that big a deal. While some folks will tell you you have to do the 5 th step with your sponsor, it's not required. This is specifically addressed in the Big Book. 2) Those are as reasonable as most other reasons. You might want to get a feeling for how secure they are in their sobriety, as well as how their sobriety aligns with your expectations/needs. Do they say they have to make x number of meetings to stay sober? Not so good, unless you have the time and inclination to make AA meetings part of your life from here on out. Are they controlling; do they insist on monitoring and dictating everything you do? These folks should be avoided---they've missed something in their own step work. A sponsor is only there to guide you through the Steps, nothing more. 3) Technically, you're not obligated to share anything with anyone, until the 5 th step. And then, you can pick anyone, or several different someone's to share you're inventory with. Myself, I never had a sponsor in the AA sense of the word, (I used everyone on the old about.com forum to learn how to do the steps), so I went to a personal friend for some of it, an AA member for other parts of it, and a Catholic priest for the stuff I wanted to keep absolutely private. I'm not Catholic, or even religious, but there are a lot of priests out there who are knowledgeable about the Steps, willing to hear your 5 th, and bound to confidentiality. Ummm, why would you not want to tell your story? Just wonderin', you don't have to answer. 4) You should be allowed to work the steps at your own pace. If that turns out to be too fast or too slow for your sponsor, consider their objections, and if you can't come to an accord, find a new sponsor. In the early days of AA, a prospect was taken through the first three steps in less than a day. Many were hospitalized at the time they were first contacted by AA members. The members would tell the prospect their stories and ask the prospect to think it over. Then they'd go back the next day and if the prospect said he wanted what they had, the first three steps would be knocked out during that hospital visiting period. After that, it was usually less than a week to take them through the rest of the steps, and whammo!, the prospect was out on the street carrying the message to other alcoholics, as per Step 12. I think one important fact is missed by those who insist on finishing each step, in numerical order, before moving on to the next step. That is, the steps do not operate as separate, discrete actions, but work together to reinforce and compliment each other. In other words, the quicker you can get all twelve of them working in your life, the better. Ron, I would like your opinion regarding the questions I posed to firpeace. . .
I'm having difficulty with the 5th Step. I don't want to process that with someone else. I know it is about accountability . . . .
The process of selecting a sponsor . . . It almost sounds as though I am interviewing someone.
Is it a bad idea to ask the person leading the group that I attend for suggestions as to who fits the criteria you described?
Thank you very much.
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Post by Pam on Oct 5, 2015 20:10:43 GMT -5
Ron,
Have you completed the 12 Steps? Would you consider being my online sponsor until I find a sponsor at one of my meetings?
Thank you for your consideration in the matter.
PT
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Post by ron on Oct 6, 2015 2:05:51 GMT -5
Ron, I would like your opinion regarding the questions I posed to firpeace. . .
I'm having difficulty with the 5th Step. I don't want to process that with someone else. I know it is about accountability . . . .
The process of selecting a sponsor . . . It almost sounds as though I am interviewing someone.
Is it a bad idea to ask the person leading the group that I attend for suggestions as to who fits the criteria you described?
Thank you very much.
Hey, there, I can't answer what Mark means by spiritual experience, but I can give you the link to Bill W.'s take on it: Alcoholics Anonymous, Appendix II, pp 567-68As for those "dark places of your soul," they truly are only relevant to you and your HP. But there is an unbelievably (for me it was, anyway) powerful release in admitting it to another person. And that's really what the step is about---letting go. Accountability might be an extra benefit, but only if you stay in contact with your confessor. Me, I haven't seen any of the people I shared my inventory with for many years, long before I recovered. So, strictly necessary? Probably not. Put it on hold until you get further along in the Steps. You might end up changing your mind about it. Or not. No harm, no foul that I can see. Yep, it's pretty much an interview process. Ask the person leading the group? I wouldn't. Simply because the chairperson, in most groups, changes frequently, usually meeting to meeting, and is just a member of the group. It would be the same as asking any random person in the room. But then again, you're new, you're stoked, and if it's a good group with a lot of sobriety, they will most likely bend over backwards to help you find a suitable sponsor. (How's that for a waffling answer?)
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